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Freeslay, or not a freeslay?

Discussion in 'Counter-Strike Source Chat' started by Lino, Mar 6, 2021.

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  1. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    So I commanded the T's to go between cell 6 and 7, yes I did I know more t's would rush the vent in this case, and enter, and I knew the vent was open as I watched 2/3t's enter from vent cell a few seconds beforehand.
    @lofty slayed me, @Bennevis said *deleted actually because I'll let him post his opinion himself :p*
    Just to note though, ct's were already in the vent, as T's were already in it when I commanded to go between cell 6/7, and the radar info I had showed t's in the vent before I entered.
    So was it a freeslay.


    Just to clarify, I opened the cells, and there was radar info/audio info showing t's in the vent, before I entered.
    0:06-0:07 cells open
    0:10 audio heard of steps in vent of CT's and T's
    0:10 also radar info of T's being in vent.
    0:14 enter vent
    0:17-20 kills
    0:24 slay as I'm leaving
     
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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  2. foetus
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    foetus Member
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    Notices vent is in cell 7 > commands the T's to stack outside of vent cell > as soon as the cells are opened by himself, runs to the vent which is already open with a CT inside > shoots T's in the vent.

    Sounds almost planned to me and apparently not the first time its been done!
     
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  3. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    Ofcourse it's planned? xd what even
    People have been doing this for years on spy vs spy, it gives control to the ct's over the vent, makes things more predictable
     
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  4. foetus
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    foetus Member
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    Its borderline commanding them to rebel imo, you're sending them in the direction of an open vent and saying it gives the CT control of the vents when realistically you're putting the round at risk by sending so many terrorists towards an open vent. You know for a fact the majority are going to go for it!

    I would just personally avoid the risk..
     
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  5. RandomGlitch
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    RandomGlitch Senior Member
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    There's an important piece of info needed here which is whether or not you knew the vent was open already and if there were Ts confirmed inside the vent that hadn't been killed. If both of these weren't the case then it was certainly not a freeslay as you opened cells and immediately ran to the vent without seeing a single T enter it or receiving info from a CT that indicated so, which would be vent camping.

    I've already mentioned to you that these commands you give that send Ts to an open vent or next to a T occupied armoury are baiting them to rebel and personally I don't think it's acceptable to command this way, the objective as a CT is to prevent rebelling and have Ts play games until LR, not send them to an open vent so you can kill half of them 30 seconds into the round.

    In my opinion this is the same as baiting and shouldn't be allowed, especially not if done with intent to make them rebel like you stated yourself.
     
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  6. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    Right but none of this is actually against any rules? I've shown clear evidence of the t's being in the vent before I entered, I ran in, killed the ones I saw, and then left the rest to the ct's who were in the prior, due to the rebelling t's.

    The T chooses to rebel. Baiting is purely when you run near the t's, this is not baiting.

    @Skip how is this dumb xd dumb would have been posting this in the report section, I'm posting it here to discuss and get a clear answer on it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 6, 2021 ---
    @foetus it is actually the best option out of them, keeps the t's location concentrated, away from the ct's so they can focus on rebellers, where they are 100% sure of the location of.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2021 ---
    The question I did ask was, was this a freeslay? Kind of avoiding that. :p
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2021 ---
    I clearly show in my description evidence for knowing T's are in the vent, if you'd be so kind as to check the video :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2021 ---
    Also:
    - There are no rules saying I cannot place t's near open vents, or rules corresponding to this type of command at all.
    - I did not break a single server rule doing this, the commands were clear, and the t's chose to rebel, many didn't rebel, they saw an open vent and went into it and died, one of whom got mad and slayed me.
     
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  7. Hiddenpro64
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    Hiddenpro64 Member

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    Personally, there is nothing wrong with that command, its up to them whether they would opt to rebel or not, T's were already in the vent so it would be easier to throw away the rotten potatoes first and keep the ones that are listening to the commands so it could be a quick round and give !lr to those who deserved it. It was a good tactical command which could've helped CT's win a quick round rather than to deal with 10+ T's who are determined to rebel if there was no Free slay. The only drawback is it could cross against the line of vent camping. If I was a T and the warden gave that command, I would easily fall for the trap too and get killed whilst rebelling, but id at least understand why I died: I disobeyed command , purposefully went in vent, and had the intension of killing CT's. If T's do not listen to commands, they should get warning shot or killed, which is what exactly happened there.
     
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  8. Bennevis
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    Bennevis Senior Member
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    Can I just say, Jailbreak is not for kills its to have fun, and I didn't see many having fun when I was on.
     
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  9. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    I do this command very rarely, it's just one that sometimes can be beneficial, but like I said, was it a freeslay?

    Also, as you can see by how fast I left the vent, I had no intention of staying to finish it, I was going back to command the t's to a game, this is completely the t's decision whether to risk dying or not, not a killwhore decision.
     
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  10. Jingle Jangles
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    Jingle Jangles Senior Member
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    I addressed this to you in chat in-game.

    The slay was correct from my perspective, you knew the vent was open at cell 7 and commanded Ts to go there. You were essentially both commanding Ts to rebel and commanding Ts to die: this is disallowed. If I'm to understand correctly this might not have been the first time you've done this as well, so I'd just say don't do it again.

    Not every rule needs to be explicit such as "don't command Ts next to open vents", this is common sense commanding.
     
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  11. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    How was I commanding t's to rebel xd But okay, can you add in the rule 'no commanding t's to go near areas they can choose to rebel.' As it's quite a distinctive rule.

    I won't do this command anymore, but I completely disagree with the rule that you've made up on it :)
     
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  12. Sum Whipp
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    Sum Whipp Junior Member

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    Dont argue with admins.
     
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  13. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    u ok?
     
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  14. L O P O
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    The point of the game as a ct is try to have games and contain the t's from rebelling, you are clearly doing the opposite by incentivating them to rebel. It's not about a "Choice to rebel" or a "made up rule" you shouldn't give them that choice at first
     
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  15. topbadge
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    topbadge Veteran Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    I don't give the t the choice to rebel, the point of the command is that it usually grants control easier to the ct's due to the location of the vent, the ease of access for the ct's to enter if t's enter, it also speeds up the point at which you can do games with the t's and gets to an outcome faster.

    I'm surprised that people don't see the tactical advantage of this type of command
     
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  17. L O P O
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    I don't think there is any tactical advantage, usually when the vent is in cell 7 i wouldn't send them anywhere close to it unless the cells were close which isn't the case


    That is what i think about it
     
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  18. RandomGlitch
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    RandomGlitch Senior Member
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    If you knew Ts were in vent, why didn't you allow your CTs to finish clearing it before you sent the Ts to an open vent?
    I'll reiterate as you ignored my main point from before: the objective as a CT is to prevent rebelling and have Ts play games until LR, not send them to an open vent so you can kill half of them 30 seconds into the round.

    Here's an example that follows similar logic. A warden drops a gun near a frozen stack and kills every T that exits the stack to try and pick up the gun. Is this an acceptable command, it's not techically gunplanting so it's within the rules and allowed right? I think not.

    https://youtu.be/SK6QbnwcGUo?t=393
     
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  19. Lino
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    Lino Veteran Member
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    not really adding anything new here :)

    Also the objective of Jb is for the ct's to command t's, and ultimately win, the gamemode is interpretable, and the majority of my rounds I do get most the t's to games, in this one, I wanted to try something different, within what the rules stated to add some flavour to the usual mundane common orders.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 6, 2021 ---
    There's nothing wrong with luring the t's into a decisive trap, if they choose to rebel then they... die? which is meant to happen..?
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2021 ---
    Also, people don't play jailbreak for the games, they play it for the rebelling and commanding, and why some of the most popular maps, have the least games, and are very T sided in their layout, hence why other servers survive so heavily on csgo despite the fact you spend 99% of rounds doing no games at all, if they want the games they go to minigames.

    You play jailbreak for the core interaction of the ct's against the t's.

    Also just to note, I was given a slay for camping the vent apparently, and as it's clear I wasn't camping the vent, it was a freeslay?

    There's nothing wrong with trying 1 out of the 150+ rounds every day with a different command, especially when the command in itself really does not break any rules, it's not commanding the t's to die or rebel, it's just adding a different dynamic to the decision making.
     
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  20. Spankz
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    Spankz Junior Member
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    The way I see this is that your aware of an active rebel taking place from the vent location in cell 7. Some CTs are already attempting to contain the rebel as you open the door and knowingly command Ts to a location that is impossible to get any closer to the active rebel site of cell 7 without acctually commanding them into the cell.
    You already had calculated the fact that more Ts would rebel and this is evident from the fact that you opened the cell doors and instantly ran directly into death crate vent and to the rebel site without any hesitation and kill 2 Ts.

    The issues with this are:

    1. You never allowed your CTs enough time to clear the vent and this promotes the Ts to over power your CTs and gain primary weapons. This isn't good practice for a warden.

    2. You commanded Ts to a location that invited them to actively rebel. This is not against the rules but this is not a decision a good warden would take.

    3. You left the cell area almost instantly after the cell doors are opened. This means you had no visual on what was acctually happening in cell area to correctly warden the round of Ts wishing to play without rebelling.

    Overall:
    You wanted some quick kills so made the decisions in question to carry out your wish.
    Although no rules were acctually broken you must know yourself this was unfair and not how a responsible warden should act to promote a fun and fair game to entice players to return to the server in the future.
    This is a case of bending not breaking the rules but to other players disadvantage. There for, if an admin at the time felt the need to slay you for this and give you advice, I would have taken the slay and advice because the reasoning is there in my opinion.
     
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