Shot4Shot is not a fair LR

With the LR there are two main scenarios, CT gets the first shot, T gets the first shot.

If the T gets first shot they are allowed to shoot at the CT immediately meaning that the S4S is following no rules, this normally ends up with the T killing the CT without the CT even realising what LR they’re playing, or whilst the CT thinks the T is typing/thinking of the rules they are killed without warning. But the T also has the option to present rules to the CT e.g. stand on opposite walls, no jumping etc which imo is fair, however the first part is not.

If the CT gets first shot, the CT could do the same, kill the T before they have a chance to do anything though this unlikely to happen as when the T realises they don’t have the first shot the rules are normally quickly presented to the CT to follow.

Basically the point I am trying to make is the T is the one with the advantage, making the LR unfair because if T gets first shot, bang CT is dead without anything been said, but if the CT gets first shot they essentially have to wait for the rules because the T could be typing or thinking of the rules.

A couple ways you could fix this is adding a grace period at the start say 5 seconds or more/less and if there are no rules stated in that period that it should be considered a no rules game. Or remove the opportunity for the T to take advantage of their first shot by adding a rule in place to make the LR fairer. I understand there is already a rule about LRs being played fairly but from what I’ve confirmed the stuff I’ve said above is completely within right of the players.

 

Spike died in this to me earlier today:

- I did not instantaneously kill him, I said "I didn't even mean to pick him for lr" then I shot him in the head. CT's usually treat LR is a time to let their guard down, and that's why they die. Spike has his guard down, and he died.

- It's cheap, but it's a play style, if the T wants to be cheap, then they can be cheap, they earn the right to be by getting to lr in the end.

- I have played on many JB servers and none of them add a cooldown to s4s because this is seen as part of the s4s dynamic. It's not a bug in the system, it's how it's meant to be played, it's amusing to do, but is easily avoided by just being aware of what lr a t is choosing around you, and not standing in easy headshot distance of the T.

- I did this maybe 15 times today, and countless more in the past month, and you're the first and only person to complain, it feels to me like you're more salty about the fact it happened to you, because I'm sure you've witnessed this many times in the past but you've never made a post about this.

- Knife fight functions in the same way.

- Dodgeballs cooldown makes more sense due to the 1hp health decrease, so a CT falling would not die from fall damage, or damage from the external traps etc instantaneously.

End notes:

- It's just a bit of fun, you can't be taking small tricks like this too seriously and block them from being done, it's just limiting to the gameplay experience, it reduces spontanuity. Too many rules kill communities, no matter how big they are.

- Don't go AFK as a CT and be more aware of your surroundings, and maybe you won't get shot in the head right away

 

I asked if what you did was in the rules and was told it was, which is why I didn’t create a report thread or mention you specifically. I’d rather not turn this into an argument as I’d much rather hear what people think about changing the LR/rules but ill break down what you’ve said so far.

True I did die from you doing this yesterday, for context:

The main problem I have with this LR is the uncertainty over what will happen, it puts the CT at a disadvantage, for example the reason I was within “headshot distance” is because I was listening to what you were saying and watching what you were doing, plus you were still holding the C4 which can damage other players when touching them with the sword so I wanted to see drop it before we continued the LR. You were in the middle of speaking and could’ve been about to say some rules, but any opportunity to react wasn’t given when you shot mid-sentence. Again you could argue its my fault and I should’ve been moving away but talking of that situation I wouldn’t have made it even round the corner before you had the opportunity to shoot me. Headshot or not I would be at a disadvantage, still making it unfair.

The timer at the start doesn’t have to be implemented, many other things could be done instead. For example, there’s a rule some servers adopt which is, if the LR has no countdown both players need to acknowledge the LR before it begins including its rules, eg when they both jump, use their flashlight, speak, chat etc. anyway, that’s just one option out of many. You also say its amusing which I can agree, but only to the same extend smurfing is enjoyable, because you’re putting yourself at an advantage over the other player and reaping the rewards at their expense.

Next, you go on to say you do it a lot and that I am the first to complain, which isn’t true, though I may be the first to post about it I am definitely not the first to complain. When people do complain they are told that it is within the rules, which is why there’s nothing ever said about it. Its allowed, hence this thread. You talk about me being salty and that it’s the reason I created this post which is entirely true haha, I must at admit yes I’ve seen it happen to other players but I didn’t enjoy it then either, but it happening me was certainly a kick up the arse in terms of actually finding the motivation to ask for change.

You then state knife fights function in the same way. Well, not really, but going by your logic the CT should always be careful which is true, however, being “headshot distance” away is a lot different than knifing distance. You could be halfway across the map and with good enough aim still kill the CT before they have a chance to react.

But then according to you the Dodgeball timer makes sense? The timer provides the benefits you stated PLUS it allows the players to be ready. So in one LR you think the timer is a good idea, but then in another you think its bad? The timer essentially acts as a buffer to let both sides be ready for the LR, dodgeball isn’t as complex as S4S but it would follow the same principle and benefits if it were added.

Again, its not fun for the other person, its fun for the person doing it. It also wouldn’t be “limiting to the gameplay experience” as it makes the T more creative than just shooting someone who’s stood still. I do however agree too many rules can kill a community but if anything this would probably improve gameplay, it would increase the fairness of the LR and probably make less salty cunts like me.

Lastly, I wouldn’t suggest I was afk when all I was doing was listening to you, though regrettably…

 

I'm sorry but none of the past communites: GP, AG, FP, Deathrow, HOE (those were the major ones I played on) implented any such rule that both players had to acknowledge the rules of the LR. I would love to know a server which did implement this rule..

Jailbreak is about being able to predict what your oponent is going to do next as a CT, this is the gameplay mechanic that makes it fun for CT's. Jailbreak isn't necessarily about who is more skilled at the game, more about who can trick the other player.

For instance, spike, your aim is very good, so good that most the time you headshot on the first shot of s4s, so in order to win, I need to be a little bitch about it, but it should stay within my right as a T who gets to lr to make that decision of how I want to play the game.

Also in regards to dodgeball, the cooldown time is in reference to separate game mechanics, dodgeball has a health decrease, so if a ct is jumping off a ledge and a t does dodgeball it can instantly kill them due to the PHYSICS and not due to the other player. That's why I see it as a good implementation.

Anything that changes the player movement / gravity should have a cooldown, that's it.

The advantage will always be with the person who shoots first, so the game will always be unbalanced.

This happens to me too, and I just think "aah what a cunt" but I find it funny, because it's literally just a joke aswell, 'ingame banter'.

 

Well even if CT has his guard up and has his crosshair on the T's head. A T' can stand still aim at CT's head initiate s4s lr and shoot him, so it's cheap shot and dumb as well, HeLL JB has a good understanding of fair play (especially when it comes to LR) and i agree with the s4s being unfair.

Basically a CT is not really allowed to do so as if the T might be typing the rules still and can end up with CT being guilty. so it's against the nature of the fair play.

If the server rule states that LR's must be played fairly, taking cheapshots for fun is just stupid.

 

of the 5 you listed 4 are dead, one is trash...

 

That's not very constructive towards the topic, none of them are trash, all/are great communities.

 

I said 4 are dead, not trash but regardless HELL has been sense 2006, and is still going strong. People wouldn’t leave those communities if they didn’t like rules admins etc etc... although time time for s4s wouldn’t kill an entire server, when you have 15 of those rules it would. Here we are lucky enough to have very few of those roles but s4s is one of them that should probably be changed... most LRs have a set rules (such as gun toss or knife fighting) I don’t see why one got s4s would be so bad...

 

No those communities had devoted members just the owners gave up on most due to money, or just getting simply older, apart from deathrow in which the owner got hit by a bus or something like that, and it went downhill from there. We are just lucky to have nomy and boy who I suppose still have some sort of interest in this type of community.
The only rules are don't heal and don't cheat.

 

4. LRs should be played fairly
5. Do not interfere with other players in LR
6. CTs can refuse custom LRs (Knife guntoss, Climb, Bhop, Nade guntoss, etc)
19. Anything a T has done is to be forgiven once starting the first LR.

These are the current rules on LR, heal and don't cheat fall under the 4th.

The starting argument was that S4S is structured in an unfair way and doesn't wholly fall under what the fourth rule represents.

 

well done on pasting the rules lol?

 

All you need to say to do this is No Rules and then can run around and shot. always been this way just most play in areas like football goals and so on.. only rule that cant be broke is getting medic in lr that's it for shot for shot

 

I think this says enough.

 

@Lino that is art

 

So gold ahhahahhaah

 

@Spike got rekt

 

Truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue, still a biased LR I just have worse aim than Lino thought

 

I hate getting involved in a Lino thread because it just looks like I really don't like him... I don't not like you btw lino.

More often than not I envy the shit out of how fucking good you are at CS

However, It is annoying at times like this when you use a technicality to get away with a shitty kill. It annoys people so much because you don't need kills like that and when people get a fair chance (rule 4) to play against you in LR and win it makes them feel good. It certainly makes me feel better when you've been whooping me 5/6 rounds in a row and I finally get one over on you (not just you either other good/great players too).

You don't cheat Lino we all know that but we also know you get as close to the edge as you can because it's your style and you're very aware of the rules so use that to your advantage. This discussion wasn't about you but you made it that way to prove you weren't in the wrong.

I don't think the rules should change.
I do think a player like you should... but won't.
I think the day you change you'll get bored and wont play anymore.
And I'd rather have you around than not. You pain in the arse.

Spike stop being a salty about stuff you've done yourself, to worse players than yourself.

 

Fair enough I agree with most of it. Though saying “stop being salty over stuff you’ve done yourself” isn't quite right, the salt part obviously but you’re making it seem Im hypocritical and do this on the regular, when I’ve done it once or twice since the thread started to show the unbalance.

At this point I’m starting to lose the fucks I gave at the beginning, pretty much everything has been said that needs to be and that didn’t need to be lol, so I’m gunna leave it here til a decision’s been made or not been made